The Bible says, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth…
But have those paragraphs been rewritten recently as, an Israeli eye for 3,000 Muslim eyes…
Apparently, the Arab rockets into Israel have killed only 20 people in eight years. And the recent escalation by Hamas has been miniscule in comparison with the current Israeli retaliation. But a latest Arab death toll is verging on 3,000, compared with one Israeli dead. (ed.Also See- this article)
Why should a Welsh web-site bother with penning an observation ?
Perhaps because much of the underlying bitterness is caused by invasion and by expropriation of land. It was long, long ago that Wales suffered from expropriation. And the invasion by now is peaceful.
But it still hurts when the end result is incomers who erect signs in Pumpsaint, Carmarthenshire, pointing to the Five Saints riding school.
I am amazed that Cymdeithas yr Iaith have so far failed to wield the paint brush.
Whether the Welsh are more opposed to the actions of the present Israeli government than the English (or the British foreign office, esconced in their comfy office below the White House, taking orders from the Pentagon), I have no idea.
But I have heard that Israeli apologists suffer a hard time in Ireland. Perhaps because the Irish know something about arrogant invaders, and are willing to make their views known.
In Wales, perhaps we are too scared of being labeled anti-Semites. When in fact there are two sort of Jews. Those who believe in taking over someone else’s land at the point of a gun, and those who actually try to live by the Bible (and I don’t mean the long-bearded Jewish equivalents of both the fundamentalist Christians of America and of extremist Muslims living in caves in Afghanistan).
Assembly presiding officer Lord Elis-Thomas made amends for the silence of Wales by failing to meet the Israeli ambassador when he was invited (by other people) to Cardiff recently – his reasoning made reference to invading other peoples’ territory, and refusing to leave, despite repeated demands from the United Nations.
I haven’t yet seen the good lord referred to as an anti-semite. Let’s hope today’s Israeli-watchers do not descend to racialism. They’ve got good enough arguments, already, on their side without inventing the race card.
Print This Post
The majority of the Welsh threw in the towel a long time ago…….
to be honest I hope Israel sort them out this time – this is the traditional land of the jews as well but unfortunately many of you seem to forget or ignore that fact.
It’s comfortable for the guardian reading, BMW driving, health food loving know-alls to slate Israel at every given opportunity but never do you seem to look at it from another angle.
If my neighbour was firing missiles at me for years i’d have had enough by now..
Hamas have fired 5000 rockets at Israel in 5 years, they carried on firing them every day during the ceasefire. Israel told them if they did not stop they would get pummelled so they carried on, now they are getting pummelled, 2 + 2 = 4 it turns out
I quote: “But I have heard that Israeli apologists suffer a hard time in Ireland. Perhaps because the Irish know something about arrogant invaders, and are willing to make their views known.”
or is it because of Ireland’s own connection with Catholicism and even the historical connection with the Nazis of ww2?
In 1939 Ireland were actively canvassing germany for weapons and ammunition to fight the UK but more particularly do these names mean anything to anyone..?
Andriya Artukovic
Celestin Laine
Pieter Menten
If they don’t look them up and find out what they did to the innocent and where they hid following the war!
Oh and less we forget the then Taoiseach, Eamon de Valera, the one who sent a telegram to the German ambassador upon hearing of hitler’s death, a telegram offering condolences ffs!!
Perhaps then ‘Politico’ the Irish treat the Jews in a certain way for differing reasons than sympathy with the oppressed? Perhaps it’s more to do with their predominant religion’s view of the jews?
Eamon de Valera actually interned key and active IRA members in 1939 to prevent them from stirring things up in the north and with other British interests. He could do this better than any other government or person because he was also IRA
Only in 1938 did the UK give back the treaty ports to “the free state” – one year later they would have been useful in convoy protection and re-fuelling etc.
Eamon de Valera however played his neutrality to a strange degree – like you said, to the point of sympathising with adolf’s death – and there were many powerful people in ireland at the time with strange leanings towards the Axis forces, worrying so, and in all likelihood a viewpoint blinkered by hatred of the UK more than anything else.
Is there any real surprise that ireland refused to take jewish refugees during the war and then provided a safe haven for war criminals?
@ Logical: “If my neighbour was firing missiles at me for years i’d have had enough by now..”
Well, if I was a country, that was occupied by another, forcing it’s people into a small corner of the land, who then found more and more of the land they had left gradually land-grabbed, without any way of stopping it short of force, I’d have had enough by now too… oh wait…
I guess the Welsh are empathetic to the Palestinians because we see parallels.
Mynyddog, who’s land was/is it? Historically where were the isralites located then?
How far back do you want to go, if you want to go further back than circa 600BC do you also think we should landgrab those territories that were once Wales but now over the border?
Perhaps we should be more empathetic and look to Israel in that its people have managed to attain their freedom and land from aggressors all around them?
I’m quite happy to go back to the mandate; try 1946. Almost all the land was Arab, with the Jews owning some. A UN division of Palestine gave the Jews, both those there since pre-war and the new arrivals, a zone of their own. The Arabs stupidly wouldn’t accept. And the whole issue got mixed up with East-West troubles. Unfortunately, the Arabs thought socialism (= ? Communism) would deliver.
But now we’ve got to move on. Hamas in Gaza would compromise; but too many Jews still support ever-greater land-grabs. Hence Lord Elis-Thomas’s refusal to meet the Israeli embassador when he arrived at the Assembly.
Three cheers for the good lord.
Cambria – if you want to go back to ‘mandate’ then prepare for the act of union to be thrown back at you….
In middle eastern terms, the mandate was only yesterday.
You talk of the Act of Union of Wales and England, but that was imposed after a war and a military victory….perhaps a bit like what is being planned today for Gaza.
The mandatory authority (Britain) clearly realised the danger of unlimited immigration into a country which had been occupied for centuries by another people – the semitic Arabs.
There are signs of peace feelers extending from Hamas in Gaza. But you can hardly hear them from beneath the noise of warfare produced by Jewish (ie Israeli – how many Arabs, either Christian or Muslim, are allowed in the Israeli front-line ?) armed forces.
Tell me Cambria when did a distinct Palestinian nationalist identity first surface in the history books? Reading a bit of the Ottoman period of control of the region will show clearly that there was no such thing at that time.
To quote Quote from Charles Krauthammer –
“Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.”
So who’s land is it?
With regards to Gaza it really shows the respect the Arab states have towards Palestinians when you realise their voices of support are just silences; indeed, Egypt, which borders the 23 mile stretch of land, rarely sends any aid, help or support to those Palestinians. why?
I wont even start right now to talk about Hamas, especially the recent death of Nizar Rayyan, as we both know they are an argument any right minded caring person will lose.
Don’t get me entirely wrong, I do massively sympathise with the Palestinian peoples but to just jump on bandwagon and slate Israel is plain wrong – especially trying to claim identity with them as we were “mulled” by superior forces in our history, etc. This comparison is rubbish and the History Channel (above) has already alluded to why the Irish possibly have sympathy for the Palestinians…..
People must understand a little more of the region’s history and the true claim the Israelites have to this very land before jumping on the “poor oppressed people” bandwagon – would you rather the roles were reversed then? If you would, ask yourself WHY
Nos da for now..
uh-oh, the old anti-Semitic card.. doesn’t wash anymore sorry. This isn’t about a culture/religion, this is about a modern political state.
If you’re going down the “Israel is the Iron-age country where the Israelies lived”, and using that as a basis for what is going on currently, then let’s look at the parallel: we’ll have England back, thanks. Using American/UN tropps, we will make as the home state for the Brythonic people. We’ll force all the English to live in Kent, then blockade it by sea and land. Then gradually we’ll set up Brythonic towns there too, sending in the troops if the English resist. Seems ridiculous, doesn’t it? Yet that is the very arguement that is being used here. And what is now Israel wasn’t a Jewish state until the 20thC, , it has been Semetic, Babylonian, Persian, Macedonian, Roman, and then Arab since 638.
There is no reason the Jewish people, muslims, arabs and Christians can’t live together in peace, they’ve done it for 3000 years. Oh, there is one reason: the State Of Israel. They can’t expect the Hamas or whoever to respect their borders when Israel doesn’t extend the same courtesy.
Also, this whole mess is the West’s making, no wonder they are throwing planes at us. We need (*cough* America needs) to pull their finger out and sort it out once and for all. Instead of invading Iraq and stuff, on the pretext of “stopping terror”, the obvious thing to do would be to defend the Israel/Gaza border, both for the Israelies AND the Palestinians. A line of peacekeepers, along the border, insuring that Israel don’t go on, Hamas don’t come out, and that they play nicely. But they would have to enforce it: if Hamas start throwing rockets at the peacekeepers, they go in and sort it out. If Israel sends an army/settlers into Gaza, the peacekeepers go and sort them out. At the moment it’s all one-sided.
Mynyddog I agree totally with the thoughts on resolution in your last posting. I wont enter into debate on the implied non-relationship between throwing planes and religion though. It is time that the Arab States and possibly others, to take greater ownership of this situation and police Hamas etc.
However your 2nd last post doesn’r really collate with your first on this subject does it?
I quote from you:
“Well, if I was a country, that was occupied by another, forcing it’s people into a small corner of the land, who then found more and more of the land they had left gradually land-grabbed, without any way of stopping it short of force, I’d have had enough by now too… oh wait…
I guess the Welsh are empathetic to the Palestinians because we see parallels.”
Ps, I see greater parallels with the Israelites in all honesty, don’t you?
No, I was mearly showing that, if we had a post-45 Israel situation here in Britain, how … mad… it would be.
The whole 9-11/militant/thing stems from what is happening in Palestine. So it would make sense to solve the problem, instead of looking around for distractions. But then, I guess there is no oil in Palestine/Israel…
“The whole 9-11/militant/thing stems from what is happening in Palestine”
sorry mynyddog but that is utter rubbish!
Both of you have some unique views, personally violence begat’s violence, personally Osama will be loving this, the sorrow so sweet to his ears will bring followers to him in droves, they are killing so many and nobody cares thats sadness of it all, imagine this if the arabs had seen the writing on the wall in 1939 would they have helped hitler against great Britian or helped Lawrence of Arabia, some how i think not
hopefully some of you will be supporting this event, whether in person or spirit
http://tinyurl.com/75m5ub
I note there is a protest in the heart of what was the empire. But where’s the Welsh protest. And Is Dafydd El leading it ?
nowt so blind as those that will not see eh cambria? Perhaps the majority of this country actually don’t agree with your views?
see you still haven’t answered the questions i pose or counter the statements made against your view?
Is it nice in those warm middle class homes and those idyllic lives you all have? Rather than look to the israeli conflict why not look at the problems closer to home? Of course that’s not trendy is it!? Never mind your copies of the Observer will be delivered on time tomorrow….even in this weather i’m sure