So now those that support Independence, a separate National identity and full Devolution for Wales know just where they stand with respect to published Labour policy. Households throughout Wales will have just received through the letter box an official Liebour ‘Election Communication’ and it states quite clearly the following:
Welsh Labour believe this is a time for unity not ‘independence’ for Wales. We need to pull together not break away.
Most potential voters will read this at face value. ie. Labour do not support independence for Wales. The exhortation to ‘pull together’ is a fine sentiment but hardly constitutes a political policy which will influence voters whereas Independence and Devolution are clearly issues that our readers and Welsh voters will have a view on.
The leaflet goes on to state:
Both Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems are ineffective in Europe and would leave Wales on the fringes without an effective voice. Labour can deliver for Wales in Europe.
Well, this is a matter of subjective opinion and Cambria Politico and many others have frequently posted articles about the Labour/Kinnockian performance and legacy in Europe. The answer to this is clear from the record of Wales as an economy under Labour. In spite of huge EU investment (always delayed and tied up in bureaucratic knots) arguably it has gone backwards not forwards like the Irish economy. It is also reflected in the vast growth of the Public Sector in Wales which now employs an astronomically and unsustainably large proportion (70% +) of the workforce.
Labour claims to be investing in the Future of Wales but it is the Present that needs the investment. ProfliGate, the expenses scandals has made sure that Labour will NOT be a part of the Future of Wales.
You see no reason to stay impartial, despite the fact that you are publicly funded magazine?
We are NOT and never have been publicly funded. Cambria is a privately owned and independent concern. We make no claims to being impartial (we’re not the BBC) and are in favour of any party that has policies that will lead to an independent nation.
So you received no money from the Assembly Government last year.
You are probably thinking of Golwg who are due to receive £600,000 from WAG instead of support for Y Byd a national newspaper. We are not associated with Golwg in any way and are in fact wondering what they are supposed to be doing with this money as nothing has appeared yet apart from an amateurish effort of a website at golwg360.com.
Independence for Wales is a complete non-starter, whatever part of the economic cycle we are in. Wales relies on the continuation of the United Kingdom as an unitary state and to begin to pretend otherwise is frankly to mislead the people and give false hope.
Just look to Ireland and Iceland if you want to see what can happen to a “small” country. The UK is a great example of a diversified “multinational”, one best placed to weather these exceptionally tough economic times.
Why let go the anchor of stability in the storm just to satisfy some lofty identity politics, laced with romantic nationalism.
SHOCK HORROR! Labour do not support fruitcake welsh nationalists in their quest for isolationism and parochialism.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you do know there is only 9% support for independence dont you? ?? and most of it is from young people going through their angry identity confusion stage. 9 out of 10 of them always change their minds when they have had the time to think it through properly and look at the sums!
Attacks on Ireland and Iceland may be premature. My bet is that in five years time (the next economic cycle) Ireland and Iceland’s GNP will be higher than Wales.
Wales’s GNP is some 74% of the UKs … hardly a glowing report for British nationalism …. that is our GNP as a proportion is lower than Ireland (even taking into account their current situation) and Iceland’s too. In 5 years time …. it will still be lower.
Iceland and Ireland are in a mess …. and what the UK isn’t. The biggest mistake of these two countries was to follow UK Labour-Tory policies.
Funny how nobody notices that Denmark nor Norway are in the same situation as Iceland / ireland … not little Faroe Islands either (population 47,000).
The UK’s hold on Wales is weakened by every recession and this one will be no different. Support for more power for the Assembly and ultimately independence will grow.
“We need to pull together not break away”
misery loves company
“misery loves company”
What cynicism! Have you not heard of the benefits of synergy. Perhaps you derived your aphorism from personal experience?
Masaryk,
While your namesake may have been inspired by those Sturm und Drang icons, Hamann and Herder, I don’t think you can reasonably employ their nationalism to a 21st century Wales which is part of a global economy whose inter-dependence is ever growing.
The best way forward for Wales is to leverage the skills of its people and the influence of the multinational, of which it is an organic part, namely UK plc, to take a bigger slice of international business and trade.
Hankering for some romantic, idyllic independence is really way off beam in the current climate in which we need to strengthen our human capital in order to compete in fiercely competitive markets, and help increase Wales’s share of UK GDP.
Why do these fools equate Cambriapolitico with Cambria magazine? They are quite different entities. Cpolitico sprang from the opinion section of the magazine, I understand, but is wholly independent from the magazine’s editorial board and stance. Why the hell shouldn’t it voice whatopinons it likes – or are you sad Liebour goons trying to totalitarianise the web because it’s caused you so much damage? Long live freedom of speech and damn the lot of you! As for independence – it’s the only way forward now that Great Big Britain’s on the way out.
Right, so David York has disappeared pronto having got it completely wrong abtou Cambria’s funding… I love seeing people get on their high horses then bow out cos they got it arse about face.
Re Iceland and Ireland. Both of those countries will be back on their feet while Wales is still languishing at the bottom of every indicator of wealth, health and work.
In fact I’d rather be in Iceland now than in Wales. The so called benefits of the UK have left us below Poland. The UK as currently constitued has done nothing for Wales. Im not keen on independence especially but no one but an idiot can pretend that Wales gets the best deal from its place at the UKs table right now.
Better to be poor in Iceland, with its health and social security system, its first woeld help for parents and children, than poor in Wales.
Im tired of this xenophobic Ireland and Iceland bashing fom the nationalist Brits. Look to your own problems, you arrogant jingoist plonkers.
Why is independence for Wales a “romantic” concept? The Scots are hard-headed people but you can bet they’ll be independent in the next few years.
We are all interdependent to a large extent and North Korea style isolationism is not what’s on offer.
The Catalans and Basques understand that. They, like Wales are nations, not regions, and that’s why some people believe in independence – for better or worse.
If somebody feels more British than Welsh they, as British nationalists, will never accept independence.
If your identification is more Welsh than British then independence may be more appealling.
The best analogy is to ask yourself would you let your next door neighbour run your household or would you prefer to run it yourself.
Then asked that question on a national level to the Danes, Dutch, Irish … and Welsh.
Either way, nothing remains the same forever – remember the USSR, Yugoslavia, the Cold War and Apatheid ?
Never say never. Keep an open mind and watch this space.
Castro,
your argumentation is very poor, indeed dangerously simplistic. How do you make the leap from the household (i.e “ask your neighbour to run your household”) to the needs of an economy such as the UK?
And you weaken it further by using the term nationalist but prefixing it with British, which is a nonsense, as I am not arguing on the basis of a supposed cultural identity (as you try) but rather on the basis of economic pragmatism.
By conflating our economic challenges with your proto-romantic nationalism you are clouding the germane issue which is how best to secure a strong economic future for Wales going forward.
The answer is to spend our creative energies and financial resources boosting the human capital of people in Wales, so that a greater number of people can up date their skills and find quality jobs in the new industries that are emerging rapidly.
Empower them, ;let them take decisions, and yes, perhaps make some mistakes, but we need that new spirit of adventure and experiment to move ahead in the new world economic order, and not put up unecessary barriers to trade and communication.
Let’s talk “bread and butter” rather than this distraction about independence for Wales. It’s a complete non-starter and you should not build up false hopes in our young people. Let’s look outwards, not inwards.
Better to persuade young people to learn a modern foreign language and look to becoming new social entrepreneurs.
David Philips says…
‘Better to persuade young people to learn a modern foreign language and look to becoming new social entrepreneurs’
Better to persuade young people to learn Welsh and to understand and take pride in their history and heritage.
What in God’s name is a ’social entrepreneur’? This is a meaningless bollocks phrase/concept.
What Wales needs is better entrepreneurs who are not spivs or crooks and better public servants who are not jobsworthies.
Labour want us all to ‘pull together’ like lemmings over a cliff. Me, I prefer to stick to the path, the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path.
David Phillips said:
“While your namesake may have been inspired by those Sturm und Drang icons, Hamann and Herder, I don’t think you can reasonably employ their nationalism to a 21st century Wales which is part of a global economy whose inter-dependence is ever growing.”
You obviously haven’t been paying attention to what has been going on with the world economy dave! How is the “global economy” going to remain feasible in the face of Peak Oil and rapidly escalating energy prices? Globalisation was built on cheap oil and those days are over. I think you’re going to find that the only romantic ideal is your fantasy of some kind of global civilisation ultimately built on the shifting sands of the oil and gas-rich middle east (and even their oil may be running out…).
UKplc was also built on cheap oil and now that North Sea oil has peaked (1999) a lucrative source of income for the Treasury is going to dry up over the next decade or so. Renewables are the way to go and Wales has an abundance of them.
The two main tax revenues for UK PLC are…or rather were North Sea Oil and the City. Both places are on the wane. Can Wales afford to remain a part of an something which is becoming poorer and even during the years of plentyfull still had a massive trade deficit with the rest of the world. As Mr Dunckley says, we need to forge our own way on re-newables and not be obsessed with the City or the dwindling oil in the North Sea. One could argue, that these to ‘golden eggs’ will turn out to be mill-stones around our necks……since too much reliance and importance accorded to them. David Phillips, have you ever been outside the UK?
I’m no romantic David. I’m an internationalist (who learnt Welsh abroad) and a pragmatic economist. British Unionists can also be called romantics if they have a certain viewpoint. Stop trying to persuade people that independence will leave Wales, the poorest ‘region’ of the UK, worse off. To stand on your own feet does not make you “inward looking” either.
In my experience the most Euro-sceptic people are also the most devo-sceptic; “White Cliffs of Dover Internationalists”. I’d like a United States of Europe tomorrow – a union of inter-dependent yet autonomous nations.
UKIP is the only party that wants to abolish the National Assembly and that’s no coincidence. Independence for the UK but not Wales and Scotland!
Economic prosperity is not dependent on British unity. Yes, more home grown enterprise but no dilution of national identity, heritage and culture.
Independence for Scotland is now inevitable and I don’t want to live in a United Kingdom of England, Wales and part of Northern Ireland.
Cymru rydd.
The political class of this country are like the passengers of a Russian sled, hissing late at night through the moonlit forest. The ponies are exhausted, and behind them the wolves are in full cry.
Jim Dunkley, Pork Scratcher, Dai and Castro
It is true that North Sea oil and gas production is falling and so tax revenues for the UK government from this source will decline, but this is no argument for independence for Wales.
I agree that renewables are important not just for Wales or even the UK, but the whole world as the Peak Oil scenario is getting closer and our global economy is still hugely dependent on petroleum.
This is why there is a need to create thousands of jobs in low carbon, and this starts off within the education sector by reconfiguring school and university curricula to encompass new ways of thinking, entrepreneurial skills and a renewed push on science and the environment.
As well as renewables such as solar, tidal, wind and biomass, the role of coal should not be underestimated as more emphasis will be placed on this fossil fuel as oil production levels fall away as Peak Oil predicts.
With the rise of coal comes huge challenges but this is a great opportunity to push the boat out on new Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) technology. Wales can play a role along with international companies to accelerate the deployment of new systems which will sequester the carbon dioxide from our industrial output.
Moreover in the UK we could benefit by exporting the technologies to the emerging power economies like China and India, and this will have a huge impact on reducing global emissions of CO2.
These are the germane challenges we are all facing, and so the affectation with a move to Welsh independence is a total distraction and not what we look for in future political leaders in Wales.
So, if you want to stick your head in the sand and stay in denial about our future global challenges, then you could indulge yourself by voting for Plaid Cymru I suppose.
But if you want a real response to what is both a challenging but also exciting time, then the solutions are to be found with Labour, who have already given the green light to a new generation of nuclear power stations, as a means to address low carbon and energy security.
Fine words Mr.Phillips. However, as soon as anyone mentions the words challenging, renewables or the buzz phrase carbon capture I know that they do not live on Planet Earth but visit infrequently from Planet Public Sector.
Climate change is something that occurs naturally and in cycles and nobody can deny that its ill effects are exacerbated by industrial pollution. Nevertheless it is not something that we can address or fix especially in a world so divided and disorganised as the one we inhabit. The best we can do is accomodate and adapt to changing climactic conditions. Building a few wind farms, making more fuel efficient cars or insulating a few homes will not stop the climate changes that are coming – its like whistling in a hurricane. If ruination of the Amazon, Congo and other ‘lungs of the world’ were stopped now then that might delay things a little while but these are politically unsolvable. These areas and the oceans are the best ‘ carbon capture’ methods using plant and microbial photosynthesis. Photosynthesis changed the primitive earth from a methane to predominantly oxygen world – so this is what should be supported not fiddling about with ridiculous so-called carbon capture technology. It is clear that government don’t seem to be listening to real scientists and biologists.
Some of the minor non earth shattering problems we face in Wales can be ameliorated somewhat by taking responsibilitties for governance more into our own hands – surely we can do better at running our own affairs than has been done in the past.
masaryk…..
Norway, Sweden, Dernmark et al have HAVE vast NATRUAL RESOURCES.
What has Ireland got? nothing except labour.
What has Iceland got? nothing except thermal power, effectively free, but hardly the stuff of mass export potential.
Waht has Wales got?
The same as Ireland…Nothing of commercial value in that most critical of spaces, the big wide world.
Independence?
Don’t make me laugh,
Last fiscal year it was in to England/UK for 9.1 billion quid, over it’s own GDP
Go independant?…. and how will that be made up from a nothing economy.
It has an ageing and a generally sickness bound society, little in the way of a serious skills base, most
who are skilled disappear over the Severn bridges as soon as they collect their degree or trade certificates.
My sides are splitting for the gall of the claims from the nationalists.
Denmark? Vast natural resources? You planet living what on (re-arrange into a well-known phrase or saying). far less than Wales. Doh!
Pork Scratcher said:
“Nevertheless it is not something that we can address or fix especially in a world so divided and disorganised as the one we inhabit. The best we can do is accomodate and adapt to changing climactic conditions”
This is so defeatist that it is frightening. For sure, I agree with you that over the longer term there are natural cycles over which we do not have control, but I think you would agree with me that there is a significant body of evidence to confirm the anthropogenic causes of climate change.
Let’s have a more pro-active approach to tackling these problems instead of retreating onto the back foot and virtually accepting that we can but make a few adaptation adjustments here and there.
I agree that there much to be done in terms of protecting our global carbon sinks, most notably the Amazonian forests, and that deforestation is a very serious issue which needs to be tackled urgently. This major challenge is a perfect illustration of the global challenge we face and that trying to elide the drive to Welsh independence with Wales’s natural advantage of rich renewable resources is a red herring.
The way forward on many of these renewable energy and energy saving initiatives is through international action, given that climate change impacts don’t recognise regional or national borders. We have mechanisms in place already in the EU, such as the ETS to tackle CO2 emission targets over the longer term.
And I also agree with you that there is a massive growth area in the use of algae as a means of sequestering carbon dioxide emissions from our heavy industries, and that the WAG should target investment into developing systems using algae for capturing the CO2 released from industrial plants.
Just think about it, we have a very simple process called photosynthesis – the basis of life- at our disposal and we have just walked past it. And there is also a bonus in that wen the algae sequester the CO2, one of the by-products are lipids, or vegetable oils which can have other applications.
So, let’s focus on the economic and environmental challenges, these are enough to be going with for a generation, let alone a few parliaments and the angst that seems to afflict some politicos in Wales over independence.
Really, if that was the only major concern we faced in Wales, then frankly I would be over the moon. But it is not.
David Phillips
It is not ‘defeatist’ to accept thereality of situations and to understand the projected future. I am not hiding my head in the sand here I am saying it is a waste of money and energy to tackle insurmountable problems. The only people that benefit from jumping onto the ‘green bandwagon’ are those who want to sell us something.
You can be sure that if the energy companies are going down this route they are only doing it for their bottom line not the sake of the planet. Wind farms a case in point. It takes more energy and CO2 to manufacture one wind turbine than its entire energy production over a 20 year cycle! Who benefits? The farmer/landowner who gets paid to have one on their land (70K per turbine) the manufacturers of the windmill and the energy company that sells the electricity back into the grid at premium green values (x3). This is great business but does nothing for saving the planet – in fact it is a retrograde step.
It is highly convenient for political parties to support this because it does create jobs, stimulates some innovation and distracts people from other issues.
You don’t seem to have fully grasped the fact that during a warming cycle (accelerated somewhat its true by industrialisation) there occurs a tipping point when trapped and frozen methane held in unimaginable quantities in Siberia is released into the atmosphere. This tipping point has been reached and methane release is already occuring now. This release is on a scale that totally dwarfs any contribution from man made activity and there is nothing we can do about it.
I’m not saying that this prefigures the end of the world but it certainly means the end of the world as we know it now. In this case the more control we have over our country’s administrative and governmental functions the better. By all means we should support international and pan European initiatives to prepare for and adapt to climate change and to attempt to help communities that will be affected after all that is the moral direction and we all live on one planet. We should have Independence and Authority in Wales in order to make those moral choices on behalf of ourselves and the world and not abrogate reponsibility to corrupt and blinkered government in Westminster.